Ex-Boss of National Security Committee discusses wiretapping, mews, State Department and Bloggers-for-Hire.

Vladimir Bozhko is famous for numerous scandalous statements made in social networks and Mass Media, while being a MP, boss of secret services and Minister of Emergency Response and Relief.  Bloggers and journalists eagerly quote his phrases and make mems out of them.   Regardless his attempts of self-exoneration, and claims that bloggers and journalists decontextualize his statements, the result is always the same.

Ex-MP decided to break the regime of silence, following public scandals, and discuss temporal and state affairs with us

«Red Flags»

— Mr. Bozhko, let us start our conversation with a discussion on the latest scandal that took place in social networks, after one of your posts in Facebook.  Radio Azattyk asked you, if you agreed with the opinion expressed by Sergey Vasiliyev in his post going under the title – “Nazis of Kazakhstan, Get Ready!”  You refused to comment.  May be now, you can clarify what happened?

— I reposted Sergey Vasilitev’s post, in which the most important to me was the fact of a meeting between the General Prosecutor of Russia Igor Krasnov and the General Prosecutor of Kazakhstan Berik Asylov.  The two officers discussed how to scotch and terminate actions taken by foreign secret services, that are attempting to bring our two countries to mutual arguments and conflicts. 

I reposted that article in my Facebook account. Somebody managed to enter my Facebook account and made it look, as if I support the opinion expressed by Sergey Vasiliyev. My initial goal was to keep that post on my page and use it later for the analyses of how our law-enforcement and security services do their jobs, i.e. how they protect our informational space. 

A Radio Azattyk journalist started asking me rather insisting questions, whether I supported the post of that Russian citizen. 

This is not for the first time, that I say, that Azattyk is a US State Department sponsored entity. It works to undermine the situation in Kazakhstan and it receives some solid funding from abroad. I always support the freedom of speech. In the old Soviet times, we all were accused of not letting foreign Mass Media into our country and of jamming foreign broadcasting stations, such as Voice of America. Today, our information policy is absolutely different, and we have almost nothing to hide. 

The saddest thing about all that jazz is that those Nobles from Azattyk do everything to discredit Kazakhstan in the exterior world and ignite negative processes in our country – to the benefit of other countries. So, let us not play wise guys beating around the bush!

I told that journalist that I had nothing to discuss with Azattyk and hung-up the phone. They realized, they would not get anything from me, that is why they started distorting my statements. 

For some reason, I am like a Red Flag for journalists – whatever I say, they will distort. The journalistic community today is blindly motivated to seek and savor scandal. That is one big problem in our country.  Those scandals, pretty often, come from nothing.

Take Ainur Koskina, for example. When she was a television reporter and a member of the Parliamentary Mass Media Pool, she was all about scandals. Her primary motivation is to ignite an artificial hype. She practiced untactful communication with MPs. She has that nasty way of provoking people, she likes to wave hands and almost stab you in the face with her microphone, keeps asking same questions, impudently breaks into elevators, asks MPs untactful questions and thus sells herself. There is nothing positive about that.

«Work of a Minister is More Important than Work of a Clerk»

— When journalists pushback public servants for the fact that public servants and MPs have far higher salaries, compared to common people, you say that “Mass Media bonuses and premiums are often far higher than salaries paid to Ministers”. You seriously think so?

— Questions journalists ask about the differences between salaries are an obvious way to confront public servants against society and visa-versa. But, for some reasons, journalists do not compare salaries paid to Ministers and salaries paid to private clerks in National Companies.

And very often it is so, that a private clerk in a National Company gets paid far better, than a Minister. But nobody discusses that, although significance of a minister is higher than that of an even top ranking official. Such interest is aimed at showing officials as bad people and their salaries must be cut to some average level.

Some journalists assigned themselves to posts of accusers, they accuse officials and demand their resignation. There was this famous journalist turned Blogger. In the past, he would glorify certain individuals in top ranking executive offices. Then he suddenly reformatted himself and started criticizing top offices, thus claiming the role of a justice seeker. 

— Did you have an inter-personal conflict with him?

That journalist’s relative worked in one of the detachments I supervised. A pre-trial investigative dossier was opened up in relation to that relative, for power abuse and corruption. That person extorted money from fire-fighters reporting to him, although he knew that salaries paid to fire-fighters in rural areas were low. I learned about that and I sacked him. That journalist came to me and asked to reconsider the case. I refused to do so, and he unwound a whole vendetta through Mass Media. I had to report his escapades to his supervisors…

But that was not the end. Since then, he has been availing himself of any convenience to distort my statements and revenge for the relative I fired. 

Bozhko and «Mews»

— What about another famous statement of Yours – “they should kneel and thank the state” or “If a person does nothing and then demands everything, public opinion must bring such person back to mews”. How would you comment that?

— Again, they decontextualized my statements. I once said, that President Tokayev, in one of his speeches, said that in the last 10 years, our state increased measures of protection of handicaps and those driven by poverty by 56 times. And I added, that we should all kneel and thank our state for that. In the times of trouble, we all must protect our country, without sparing our own lives. As for the second statement, it was to emphasize that society was the body to identify “professional welfare recipients”. And I was surprised to see how many people were agitated about that? What was it wrong in what I said? Every socket in this country discussed that statement of mine, although the majority agreed to that.

Bozhko and Bloggers

— Journalist Mahambet Abzhan was arrested for, as investigators report, extorting KZT 50 million from a businessman. Many think it was a provocation against Mass Media. What is your version of that event?

—That does not surprise me. All talks between Abzhan and his victim were wiretapped and recorded by law-enforcers. What provocation? Abzhan just got way too brazen and decided to chop enough cash in one go. 

Unfortunately, journalists and bloggers, as well, rather often commit extortion and corruption offences. A famous Editor-in-Chief of a famous Mass Medium published a big biased article about myself, whereby he claimed that I acted to the detriment of a company providing replenishment issues to State Reserves Administration. They even produced a photocollage – myself in a camo with a sack of rice. They thought they would intimidate me. Intimidating me would be a great challenge.

— So, you said that some people from our community were corrupt. Is it true, that a journalist extorted money from you?

— There is this famous blogger, who is now a state television celebrity. When I was a Deputy Chair of Majilis, he asked me to pay him USD 5 thousand for neutralization of scandal that took place in social networks after my words about “Kneeling” and “Mews”. I told him I did not need that. 

Another famous blogger offered me to pay her KZT 600 thousand. 

Or, do you remember that after the January 2022 riots, law-enforcers reported that 16 bloggers became suspects in criminal investigations for their appeals to the public to go out in the streets and protest? I am interested to know at what stage those investigations are. Or is it, that law-enforcers again are hiding their heads in the sand? Appeals made by those bloggers are still in cyber-space, which space remembers everything. Some of our law-enforcers think that journalists are Totemic Animals, even if they behave themselves in a nasty way and break the rules of elementary ethics.  But the problem proceeds to exist!

«Demand Restoration of Responsibility for Lies»

— You are, probably, a rare example of an official, who never filed suits against journalists. Still, you disagree to the withdrawal of criminal responsibility for lies from our law-enforcement practices. How come?

— Every person must be a responsible citizen. I absolutely disagree to the withdrawal from legislation of a provision about lies and consequences. For example, the European human rights court had numerous litigations, in the result of which some Internet users had their Internet access shut down for continuous insults or lies. I think every person must assume responsibility for its deeds, regardless what that person is.

Bozhko and Spies

— OCCPR once published a list of Kazakhstan residents spied upon by means of the Pegasus spyware.  Among them were Aset Isekeshev, Sauat Mynbayev and yourself.  What would you say to that?

— When I used to command National Security stations in provinces, I got many times approached by local kingpins, who were interested whether I was wiretapping them or not. And their requests were for me to report only good things about them to my superiors. My answer was – “Why do you have concerns about being spied on? I fear not wiretapping, for there is nothing illegal I do”. So, let that Pegasus to proceed to follow me, I am a law-abiding citizen.

— Did you wiretap your National Security colleagues?

— If we had suspicion that one of us committed disclosure of secret information, — what would you expect us to do? You go to Prosecution and seek their greenlight to do so, and you do so. That is how we once denounced a person as an agent working for Turkish intelligence and a number of other citizens, who made secret information available to other countries.

Do They Wiretap Public Servants and Journalists?

—  Which present and ex public servants did you wiretap?

—  That tale of universal wiretapping is absolute dilettantism. You think it is very easy? That is one complicated and costly technical exercise. No wiretapping shall take place without a sanction from a Prosecutor. Not always are police authorized to apply all instruments and procedures they have.

State must protect itself and its people by all means possible, provided that those means are stipulated by law. I would suggest you spend some time carefully reading Criminal Code and the Law Concerning Criminal Intelligence. All is written there – all provisions specifying how to act in such cases. Please, quit that aberration that law-enforcers wiretap everything and everyone!

— Do they wiretap journalists?

— If journalists give secret information to agents of foreign spy agencies, then yes. When it comes to protection of state secrets, there are no those “out and above battle”. Journalists are the same citizens, with their rights, freedoms, duties and obligations. Should they break laws, Mass Media workers will be wiretapped, provided that Prosecution issues official authorization.

We have this stereotype, that journalists are Holy Cows, and nobody should mess with them. Journalists are engines or democracy, they say.  How can Abzhan be an engine of democracy, if he extorts KZT 50 million and threatens to publish some blackmailing information. That is no democracy, that is way out of all red lines! Of course, not all journalists are like that, there are some very professional journalists in this country. I take pleasure communicating with them, because their primary interest is to collect information that may, one way or another, disclose the core of a certain problem  But today we have another category – people craving hype. And that is a wrong thing to do.