Ex-Boss of Secret Service Gives an Open Interview

Recently, one of indigenous Mass Media published their interview with an ex-Boss of National Security Committee Nartay Dutbayev. The latter individual declared that he was not to blame and had nothing to do with the so-called Kazakh Fraud of the Century, or the so-called Uranium Dossier involving ex-boss of KazAtomProm Mukhtar Dzhakishev, which individual was put in detention in connection with that Uranium Dossier.  Nartay Dutbayev also accused the then commanders of the National Security Committee, including Amangeldy Shabdarbayev of “tailoring a criminal investigation” against him. 

So, what did really happen? Why ex-bosses of the National Security found themselves guilty of treason? We addressed those and some other questions to Mr. Shabdarbayev.

When I was Head of National Security, Fungus-Faces Stayed Down

— Mr.Shabdarbayev, so far you have not disclosed your assessment of what happened in January 2022.  Many people compare those events to December 1986. As a former Chairman of the National Security Committee, what do you think about it?

— Various people put forward various suppositions. Mukhtar Ablyazov shares some epic stories, and so does the now fugitive ex-boss of the National Security Alnur Musayev, as well as a former Advisor to President Nazarbayev Yermukhmet Yertisbayev. I am not blaming all of them for doing that. People have opinions.

My personal view is that those events in January 2022 were orchestrated with the purpose to take over the power. The ones who organized those events hoped that President Tokayev would lose courage in the light of mass riots and run away abroad. So it happened with ex-Presidents of Kyrgyzstan. That was, probably, the initial design, but it failed. Today, some political immigrants are bragging that President ordered to shoot common people. President did not give orders to shoot peaceful and innocent citizens – he clearly instructed to eliminate armed terrorists.  Law-enforcers were instructed to shoot armed terrorist without the prior warning.    

When I was in command of the National Security Committee, we did not allow for terrorist attacks to happen – not a single one. The Committee found and neutralized three organized societies of terrorists, those “Fungus-Faces”. All of them faced the court.

When I was in the office, extremists dared not to show up in the streets. All enforcement bodies have clear instructions how to react in such cases, without necessity to wait on orders from the President. Law-enforcers are officers with special knowledge and skills, people who shall not open blind fire. They will shoot to kill those who have weapons. Later, they will investigate why those people took weapons in their hands. 

Investigation of Nurkadilov’s Death Must Be Re-visited

— In an interview, you said that investigation of the death of the oppositionist Zamanbek Nurkadilov must be re-visited. Why now, that so many years have passed?

— Zamanbek’s son, Kayrat made numerous Mass Media appeals to Prosecution General to re-visit the case.  I think that as long as the son asks for it, he should be given a go. Let them investigate again and see who is guilty and who is not. That does not necessarily imply that someone will be called guilty. That is why, I say – let them start all over again. But there is nothing more I can share, because it was Ministry of Interior that investigated the murder. Of course, the Committee is not just an observer – they are watching the process carefully and making sure that the investigation is done in the proper way.  I knew Nurkadilov in person.  He was a man of courage, a daring man. He feared not to throw the truth openly into the face.  I don’t believe that such a man would shoot himself, because of love to a woman. I am no public speaker, not a writer either.  I am an officer and I always voice things I think.

— You do not trust the supposition put forward by police that it was a suicide?

—  One of the suppositions is that, if his death was the result of an assassination, those who organized it had one goal – discreditation of the ruling regime and public unrest.

Musayev’s Grievances

— How come, that in the history of independent Kazakhstan, three bosses of the National Security – Alnur Musayev, Nartay Dutbayev and Karim Masimov, the people entrusted to protect the national security, turned out to be enemies of state? Is it really so, that we cannot trust anybody?

— First of all – Musayev began to conceive plans to take the power after dismissal from the Committee. He wanted to run a coup and for that, he and his accomplices wanted to gain trust in the eyes of President Nazarbayev. Musayev’s plan was not to run an armed coup, but to perform a sophisticated operation.  May be had some grievances or something else, I don’t know.

On 11 February, 2006, they killed oppositionist Altynbek Sarsenbayev and they wanted to bring the bodies of Aibar Khasenov and Zholdas Timraliyev, the Nurbank top managers to the place, where Sarsenbayev was killed, in one year, following that date. Thus, they wanted to cause public unrest and thus take the power.  But their plan failed. 

When I learned about that, I went to see President Nazarbayev and reported to him about the preparation of a major provocation. I suggested to initiate an investigation of instigators of that provocation, but he did not allow me to do so. In one week, I again raised that topic with him. He turned angry, but later he gave his greenlight.

– When they were frisking the house of the ex-Chairman of the National Security Committee Karim Masimov, they found a colossal sum of cash there – USD 17.2 million and numerous luxury goods – watches, golden bars, antiques. Where does that luxury come from?

— He was like a hub collecting all cash in one place. The Committee always was on the same side as was the ruling regime. He knew about what was to happen in January 2022, may be, he was one of organizers of those events. But the court is the only body to call him a criminal. That is the law. That is why, I will abstain from any comments before the final verdict is announced. The matter is not in those moneys, and not in the riches possessed by Masimov. 

Who “Resigned” Dutbayev?

— Recently, a Mass Medium published their interview with the ex-boss of the National Security Committee, Nartay Dutbayev. He said he had nothing to do with Mukhtar Dzhakishev’s case. It was the National Security Committee that performed the criminal investigation of actions taken by former leadership of KazAtomProm. In the time of that investigation, you were the Chairman of that Committee. What do you say to that?

— Well, Dutbayev did do some time in detention…He has the right of legal protection and let him proceed to protect himself, if he feels like it. I do not to put the blame on him now or criticize him. He voluntarily resigned after Sarsenbayev’s assassination. 

— Rumor has it, that you facilitated his resignation. They say, you wanted to take over his post.  Is it so?

— For what would I need it? At the time of events, I was the Commander of President’s Guards. If Dutbayev thinks it was me, then I will avail myself of the current interview to explain to him – when the President offered to me to take the post of the National Security Committee Chairman, I told him I did not want it.  In the times of the leader of Socialist Kazakhstan Dinmukhammed Konayev, I left KGB for “9” (Personal Security Directorate guarding top politicians of USSR). They “resigned” me from “9”. For some time, I worked in an economic management position, then I returned to President’s Guards, but they again “resigned” me.  After that I was a Deputy Chairman of the Emergency Response and Relief Committee, then I came to command Arystan, the National Security Committee’s Counter-Terrorism Special Service and then I again made it back to President’s Guards.  Why would I at all crave power in the National Security, especially after those seismic scandals, caused by assassinations of Mr. Nurkadilov and Mr. Sarsenbayev? But Mr. Nazarbayev told me that I would have to come in command of the Committee.

I never gunned for Dutbayev, I did not need to neutralize him. On the contrary, when they brought him down the hierarchy and commandeered him to Pavlodar, I facilitated his assignment to supreme posts in the national security.  In 2001, I gave him a chance to gain good reputation in the eyes of the country leadership.

When we started to dig into the Uranium Case involving Dzhakishev, we wiretapped some of telephone conversations between Dutbayev and Dzhakishev. Today, those wires are available in social networks. From them, anyone can see that their relations were friendly – Dutbayev calls Dzhakishev brother. Dzhakishev gave uranium mines to Japanese. Together with Dutbayev he wanted to proceed cooperation with foreigners. I brought that deal down, probably, that is why, he is mad on me.

— Dutbayev rejects all suppositions that he was involved in embezzlement of money from sales of uranium. We are looking at some USD 300 million. They say, that Mukhtar Ablyazov pulled his leg and did not given Dutbayev is cut (alleged 10% of the total sum). Suppositions are that the said amount was spent by Ablyazov in 2009 and 2010 to support BTA-bank and its Russian subsidiaries. Is it really so?

— That is right, Dutbayev never got his cut. Ablyazov did his time in jail. Today, he does have to right of protection and self-justification, but the fact is a stubborn thing – himself and Dzhakishev sold out 60% of uranium to foreign companies for a miserable price. In all contracts, there is one signature – that of Mukhtar Dzhakishev, the CEO of KazAtomProm. Several prime-minister appeared and left the office in the time of those events, but none of them was informed about that.

— Dutbayev, alsol, rejects all suppositions that he was involved in the murder of banker Tatishev. 

— Well, he did not pull the trigger personally, but he knows excellently well, who killed the banker. All information is present in court dossiers. There is no sense to reproduce verbally things that were documented officially.

What Nazarbayev Told Baybek

— Journalistic community has this story, that President Nazarbayev once told Baurzhan Baybek and NUrlan Nigmatullin (ex top ranking officials) that Shabdarbayev was the only person to trust, because he did not betray Dinmukhammed Konayev, in the times when everybody ignored him, and stayed with him until the end.  It that so?

— There is nothing I know about that conversation, but I heard something else. President Nazarbayev did, on several occasions, say that I never betrayed Konayev, but he also said that a nasty character I had …

Assassin Made no Mistakes

— Several years ago, a counter-fraud officer was assassinated in Petropavlovsk. Police put forwards the supposition that the real target was your son, but the assassin made a mistake and killed your son’s deputy – Zhandoz Akhmetov. Then, they blamed Chechen kingpins  — Mahmahanov Brothers. A version was put forward, that Mahmahanovs wanted revenge for events in the Malovodnoye Village, when their relatives were killed and their property was put on fire. How would you comment that? What is something against you or something else?

— I ran my own investigations, after that assassination. I had talks with the leader of Chechen community and with one of Mahmahanovs. That was a hard situation for me. I had serious concerns about the life of my son.  Chechens assured me of their respect, lack of any grievances towards myself and my family. They said – “We had no idea that your son was the Head of Counter-Fraud Office in Petropavlovsk. Why kill a cub and leave the mature bear alive?” Journalists ran their own investigation and revealed that there was no mistake.  The assassin eliminated the target he was ordered to.

Mahmahanov Brothers told me that Chechens never used guns-for-hire. It is a Chechen tradition – if someone insults you, you must kill that person with your own hands, otherwise that is not Vendetta. 

As for police, they thought that the assassin killed the wrong person. The assassin did not make a mistake.  My son, Nurlan Shabdar, was the head of the Counter-Fraud Office of Petropavlovsk, and at the time of the murder he was on vacation. The assassin spent six months on reconnaissance studying the victim before killing him.  Besides, my son and the victim have different exterior outlooks. Their age difference is 10 years.  How can anyone make a mistake here?

— But in court, the assassin made a confession that the initial target was Alik Shpekbayev (Police top ranking officer). The assassin said that Mahmahanovs paid Shpekbayev USD 500 thousand for him to find people who organized the murder of their relatives in Malovodnoye, but he failed to do so. Also, the assassin told in the court, that in the very last moment, Chechens cancelled their order to kill Shpekbayev, so he travelled to Petropavlosk to kill your son.

— Ministry of Interior wanted to link together the assassination of the counter-fraud officer and the events in Malovodnoye. The Malovodnoye incident was investigated under command of Shpekbayev. Police declared one of Mahmahanovs as the person who set a bounty on my son. They tied my son to that case, although he had nothing to do with those murders and arsons in Malovodnoye. It was all orchestrated to bring me down. 

My Farming Avatar Never Got to Wake Up

— You are in the know of numerous pieces of top-secret information. You are a veteran of secret services.  Did you receive invitation to return to public service?

— Negative.  First of all, my age would not allow.  Secondly, I have no personal desire to do so. As for President Tokayev, I respect him. He is a strong President. Recently, we had a volley-ball championship and there I declared that the event was in the light of President’s orders to work closely with the youth. At the Konayev Tournament, I also made a public speech and I said – Konayev is the best example of a leader – intellectual, man of high culture, deeply educated and with high moral principles. He gained nothing for himself, being a public servant. A modest man he came to power and a modest man he left his office. He is the best example of the President.

Today, they are talking things about myself – he used to put people in jail, today he puts corn herbs in the dirt. Answering that, I will make reference to Diocletian. An example from the history of mankind – an emperor who abandoned his throne and left to leave in a small cottage by sea to be a farmer. When Romans came begging him to come back to his throne, he rejected their calls. They asked him why. He said – “If you only saw the cabbages I planted here, you would not be asking”.

That was the phrase that bought him a place in the history.

I wish I was a farmer. That Avatar of mine never got to wake up.